Drove a BMW S1000RR yesterday

[Noggie]

Well, was that a completely different experience.

It really made me see the strong and weak points of the MT-07.
Ok, the comparison makes absolutely no sense as these are completely different bikes, but still it was an eye opening experience.

First of all the seat height on the BMW is MUCH higher than on the MT, I almost flatfoot both feet on the MT, on the BMW I was on my toes.
The BMW is a lot heavier, and maneuvering it on my tippy toes was hard work.
Then I got going, and the pegs are so high up my hip actually cramped a bit as I took off, fortunately that wore off after a minute or so.
I got "comfy" and started off down the road, taking it easy and entering my first corner at about 60kph I almost drove straight out, this thing is heavy, and you actually have to really push it down in the corners, took me a few corners to get familiar with this.
That said it is much more stable and provides much more feedback in the corners.
Then I kissed the inside of my helmet, because this thing is a rocket.......
And the brakes, oh man were they good, and no nose dive what so ever, just felt so confident.

So a quick conclusion.
The MT is lighter, lower, handling is much more nimble, seating position and the engines are so different you can't really compare them.
I did get confirmation on what I suspected about the MT, the suspension is utterly crap, and the brakes are mediocre at best.

So this makes me wonder, should I upgrade the MT, or swap it for a better bike?
I'll be test riding a -15 Honda VFR 800 soon, and the Kawa Z1000SX, maybe I can try a GSX-R 1000 too.
If those bikes yield the same kind of result and I find the riding position good enough my MT might be up for sale sooner than expected.

 

[sdrio]

Depends what you're doing I suppose.

I've got an older R1 which is much closer to the S1000 than the MT07 is, and I found the same as you did when I bought it, it was almost intimidating to ride, especially in traffic. But you quickly get used to it.

I find the MT07 is by far the best choice for commuting, it's a better riding position for traffic (the R1 puts a lot of weight on my wrists), and uses a lot less fuel. It has a better turning circle too, which helps in traffic. I use the MT07 4 days a week, and the R1 one day, just to give it a run.

For weekend hooliganism, there's no question - the R1 wins.

It's an alternative if you have space, keep the MT07 and spend a couple of grand on an older superbike. For me, and the riding I do, it's the ideal combination.

(by the way - VFR 800? I think you'd very quickly regret that. It's a good bike, but it's not that much quicker than the MT07, you might well end up wondering why you spent money on such a marginal upgrade).

 

[Ralph]

£5350 against £13700 if it wasn't better in some respects someone at BMW needs their bum kicking.
Though it does you good to see how the others live.

 

[foxracer]

Awesome.. I pick my S1000R up on Sunday

 

[Noggie]

yes there is a huge price gap, but how much more expensive would the MT-07 have been with an adjustable fork, and a slightly better rear shock?

Of course the BMW is better in every sense and that is to be expected.

For fun and commuting I think the MT wins. and with a better setup I would probably not look for another bike.

My friend has a -14 VFR 800 so I'm going to give it a go. it seems to be something just in between the racing bikes and the tourers, but might quickly be underpowered as mentioned.
Kawasaki has a test day next week so I will try the Z1000SX.

I'm kind of torn between upgrading the MT-07 with Ohlins front and back, new brake pads and braided hoses, or just change it for an all together higher quality bike.
Also Im not sure if I will go sports tourer or naked, the race bikes is something I want to stay clear of, but you never know.
Must say the Honda CB1000r is a tempting naked.

Yes I do have room for a second bike, but I already have two cars and the MT, not sure I need a 4th vehicle..... first world problems I guess.
An older R1 would be fun for sure.

 

[Scim77]

If you have a suitable motorcycle hire company within easy reach, I think that it is wise to hire a BMW for a day or two. By spending days, rather than minutes and hours, on a prospective bike gives you the opportunity to assess all the pro's and cons more thoroughly.

Before buying my MT-07 I hired one from Roadtrip in woking

Motorcycle hire - Woking, Surrey, near London UK | RoadTrip

By living with it for a day or so, I knew that I could live with the shortcomings, especially if I found a used bike with upgraded suspension, better brakes, better exhaust etc. Luckily, GAZ2212 was selling, so I got a properly sorted MT.

I chatted with the Roadtrip guys for some time. They had several BMW models for hire but, if I recollect correctly, they were disappointed with handlebar vibrations and tingles plus footpeg plates tingling on the BMW. I thought it was the S1000R. Anyway, my point is "Hire if you can" to avoid disillusionment later.

p.s. You are right about the MT having rubbish brakes and suspension. I suspect it needs a different brake master cylinder with a smaller piston bore diameter, to improve the hydraulic leverage ratio. By modifying in this way, I improved the Commando and the Guzzi out of all recognition, both of which could out-brake the MT. That's another job for the future. Any bike over 170kg and 800mm seat height is too big for me.

 

[Ralph]

If you have a suitable motorcycle hire company within easy reach, I think that it is wise to hire a BMW for a day or two. By spending days, rather than minutes and hours, on a prospective bike gives you the opportunity to assess all the pro's and cons more thoroughly.

Before buying my MT-07 I hired one from Roadtrip in woking

MotorcycleÂ*hire - Woking, Surrey, near London UK | RoadTrip

By living with it for a day or so, I knew that I could live with the shortcomings, especially if I found a used bike with upgraded suspension, better brakes, better exhaust etc. Luckily, GAZ2212 was selling, so I got a properly sorted MT.

I chatted with the Roadtrip guys for some time. They had several BMW models for hire but, if I recollect correctly, they were disappointed with handlebar vibrations and tingles plus footpeg plates tingling on the BMW. I thought it was the S1000R. Anyway, my point is "Hire if you can" to avoid disillusionment later.

That's a good idea, it's surprising how different a bike feels after a day or two
Strange thing about the vibes from the S1000R I had a BM not that model but
though I could not feel any vib at all it would send my right hand to sleep after
about half a hour on the M-way not something I get on any other bike. Though
many Yamaha 4's seem to have a vib patch at 60 mph.

 

[Noggie]

If you have a suitable motorcycle hire company within easy reach, I think that it is wise to hire a BMW for a day or two. By spending days, rather than minutes and hours, on a prospective bike gives you the opportunity to assess all the pro's and cons more thoroughly.

Before buying my MT-07 I hired one from Roadtrip in woking

MotorcycleÂ*hire - Woking, Surrey, near London UK | RoadTrip

By living with it for a day or so, I knew that I could live with the shortcomings, especially if I found a used bike with upgraded suspension, better brakes, better exhaust etc. Luckily, GAZ2212 was selling, so I got a properly sorted MT.

I chatted with the Roadtrip guys for some time. They had several BMW models for hire but, if I recollect correctly, they were disappointed with handlebar vibrations and tingles plus footpeg plates tingling on the BMW. I thought it was the S1000R. Anyway, my point is "Hire if you can" to avoid disillusionment later.

p.s. You are right about the MT having rubbish brakes and suspension. I suspect it needs a different brake master cylinder with a smaller piston bore diameter, to improve the hydraulic leverage ratio. By modifying in this way, I improved the Commando and the Guzzi out of all recognition, both of which could out-brake the MT. That's another job for the future. Any bike over 170kg and 800mm seat height is too big for me.

You are right about that.
My problem was that I bought the MT before I had the A license. don't think that I'm that young though, I could have taken my license 20 years ago, but for different reasons I waited.
I bought the MT after having sat on a dozen different bikes and me being a bit short the narrow and relatively low MT was the one the fitted me the best. also I wanted a naked to stop me from going too fast.

I guess I did not expect to outgrow the MT this fast, I haven't even done 3000km on it. I knew it was a cheap bike, and would not hold up with the more expensive bikes on a lot of the bits, but not to this level, I mean jack the price up £500 and put on an adjustable fork and a decent rear shock..... is that too much to ask?
The brakes will probably feel much better with less nose dive, so they should be fine without modding.

Having looked at Ohlins I may have to shed out about £1200 for new fork cartridges and a rear shock (I live in Norway = silly prices), plus whatever a shop wants to fit it for me. And with all the other bits I have put on the MT the total in that case is getting uncomfortably high for a "budget bike", after all they are £8300 in Norway, and mine with current extras has cost me £10.500, so the thought of adding another £1500++ is not something I'm sure I will do.
After all I can get a slightly used -14 VFR 800 for £11.300 (£13.300 new), or a -14 S1000R for £12.500-13.000 (£15.300 new) or a Honda CB1000r -12 for £8.800 (£14.500 new) Kawazaki Z1000SX -11 for £12.100.

I think I should be able to get £8300 for my Mt with all the bits and sub 3000km mileage, then put the £1500 I would spend on suspension on top of that giving me £9700, plenty to get a used CB1000r, ad another £1000-1500 and I'm able to get something even better.
So I'm contemplating cutting my losses and move on to an all together better bike, though that bike may need bits too and then we are at it again........ decisions decisions......

 

[Gaz2212]

Go on Noggie you know you want to, had mine nearly 12 months now and you're right you will start spending again, but ask yourself this question, once you have one think to yourself what could i have next, is there anything better. I often think this and my only answer is Tuono Factory or Superduke R and all three bikes are so closely matched there would be no point changing, you are then at the top end of super naked mahines. Here's mine just to tempt you

 

[Noggie]

Go on Noggie you know you want to, had mine nearly 12 months now and you're right you will start spending again, but ask yourself this question, once you have one think to yourself what could i have next, is there anything better. I often think this and my only answer is Tuono Factory or Superduke R and all three bikes are so closely matched there would be no point changing, you are then at the top end of super naked mahines. Here's mine just to tempt you

HAHA.....

Yes you are right.
I know if I get a CB1000r I will want the S1000R in a year or so..... so I might have to take the plunge and go straight to the BMW, after all it will then make my garage a complete BMW lineup
If I can find a used red one sub 13.000 I might go for it.
problem is if I sell the MT I have no bike until I find a new one....... and that could be a while.

 

[Gaz2212]

You know you won't be entirly happy until you have got what you ultimately want, used ones are difficult to find at a reasonable price, a friend of mine has just bought one same age as mine but with more miles and no cruise control or alarm and paid more than I did nearly 12 months ago, prices seem to be on the up, speaking to my local BMW dealer he said as quick as they get used ones in they are selling
Good luck with whatever you end with and happy hunting

 

[Scim77]

If you have a suitable motorcycle hire company within easy reach, I think that it is wise to hire a BMW for a day or two. By spending days, rather than minutes and hours, on a prospective bike gives you the opportunity to assess all the pro's and cons more thoroughly.

Before buying my MT-07 I hired one from Roadtrip in woking

MotorcycleÂ*hire - Woking, Surrey, near London UK | RoadTrip

By living with it for a day or so, I knew that I could live with the shortcomings, especially if I found a used bike with upgraded suspension, better brakes, better exhaust etc. Luckily, GAZ2212 was selling, so I got a properly sorted MT.

I chatted with the Roadtrip guys for some time. They had several BMW models for hire but, if I recollect correctly, they were disappointed with handlebar vibrations and tingles plus footpeg plates tingling on the BMW. I thought it was the S1000R. Anyway, my point is "Hire if you can" to avoid disillusionment later.

I stumbled across a review of the very same BMW from RoadTrip that I mentioned. Apparently it was the the BMW S1000XR. This bike uses the S1000R engine but is kitted out for touring. Whilst the content and style of the review is subjective and not my favourite, it mentions the annoying vibration.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vx4Kzaw7Rcg#t=938.214638

The reported vibes may not bother you at all. Maybe it was just that particular bike. The stunning performance might outweigh all other niggles. Moral of all this - try before you buy if at all possible.

 

[Noggie]

OK, so yesterday a bunch of us went on a 300km trip. I was the only MT-07.
This gave me an even better idea of the MT-07 abilities as a bike on longer trips.
It was no problem doing 300km in a day on this bike, I mean you know you've been on a bike for hours, but no lasting discomfort. Today there are no signs I was on a 8 hour bike ride yesterday.

The MT again proved itself as a fun bike at slow pace, sub 70kph it was a lot of fun, but faster than that the suspension got annoying.
Also noticed that this bike does NOT like bumpy roads at speed, so there were time I just had to slow down and let the others go, and that bothered me a lot !!
On normal main roads going 70-110kph its also fine, no problem there.

Towards the end I had a ride on the 2014 VFR-800, nice bike, but not for me. The suspension was a lot better than the MT, this thing just soaked up the bumps in the road, and bumps while cornering did not make the hairs at the back of my neck stand up as on the MT.
Over all it handled better than the MT, this bike also had a slight nose dive, but not as prominent as on the MT. I'm sure I could have adjusted the suspension to suit me even better, after all I am a bit heavier than the owner.
The seating position was not for me, It had kind of something in the middle of a sports bike and a tourer, and to me that ment I could not sit upright enough to relax, and I could not put my belly on the tank and rest. left me in a kind of awkward middle position where it put a lot of weight on my wrists, and one needed "abs' of steel" to ride it think I need to loose some weight and spend some time in the gym before I'd be able to spend a day on the VFR.

Tomorrow I'm trying out the Kawasaki Z1000SX, it's supposed to have a more upright seating position compared to the VFR.
Just found out there is a test day for Hondas next week too.

Edit: on a side note, the MT-07 does not like it when I move my butt around on the bike, gets a tad wobbly just after I have shifted from side to side, the VFR however did not.

 

[eriks]

well.. i find MT-07 very nice for touring even. Did last year 6000 km trip to Italy, longest day was over 1000 km.
Next week going to have this years trip to Pyrenees, 6500 km altogether.
OK, I got Ohlinsis front and back, this helps TREMENDEOSLY

But still I am going to get my next bike after 32-35 000 km under 24 months on MT-07
And I am considering mostly S1000R.
(wifey will get my 07 lol)

 

[Noggie]

Well, I guess that Ohlins is a huge improvement, but for me the spendings on this bike is reaching the point where I'm getting uncomfortable, and I am struggling to justify such a huge upgrade on this bike with all the other things I have done.

That said, it the past few days I have test ridden a few bikes and I'm staring to get a slightly better sense of what I want next.

I drove the new Kawasaki Z1000SX, that bike was just awesome, I loved it, power, comfort, handling etc. I can't say enough good about this bike.

Then the new ZX10R, man what a monster, fun to ride, massive power, exceptional handling, brakes etc, however I am not sure about sports bikes on longer trips, after all I was just on it for about 20 minutes.

Went to another dealer and test rode the Honda CBR650F, super comfortable, decent handling, but it felt weak compared to the MT, needed lots and lots of rpm, and just felt boring after having ridden the liter bikes. Also the instruments had a funny angle and when I had the sun behind me I could not see a thing, had to lean over to shade the sun to see my speed, also it did not have adjustable forks in any way and that is a huge negative to me. and on the nitpicking side it did not have a gear indicator. However it is in the MT-07 price range so not a huge surprise.

A friend of mine just swapped his S1000RR for an S1000R, and I'm looking forward to giving that a try.
Also I am thinking about trying an 2011 GSX-R 750 that is up for sale near me, just to see if a sports bike is for me.

I have to say the Z1000SX is fast approaching to become my favorite bike, pity they are so pricey and was completely updated in 2014, meaning I dont want the older one.

 

[eriks]

Noggie, please report your feelings and findings after test drive on S1000R, thank you

 

[Noggie]

I did that yesterday.

What can I say, other than I want one.

I'll try to sum it up without being too biased.

It's a bigger bike, once you get on it the seat height is probably about the same as the MT, however it is a bit wider, though my feet weren't that far off the Mt. I can get about both feet half way on the ground, if I flatfoot one side, I'm still on the ground with the other but on my toes. I'm 174cm and inseam around 72-74cm from memory.
Once on there is a lot more bike in front of you, so you really feel you are on a bigger bike.
The seating position is not all that different, but your feet are a bit higher and further back, feels more sporty.
It's also a little heavier to move around, park etc, but that is to be expected.

When you ride it does feel heavier, but it not really a problem, it actually feels more confident and planted to the road, the suspension is great and I really felt confident throwing it into corners, and there is very little vibrations.
Also moving around in the saddle down not affect the bike much, the MT has this nervous wobbles when I move around on the bike, but the BMW was rock solid.

The wind is pretty much the same as on the Mt, this bike had a short stumpy screen, well, it's how the come from the factory so I'm not sure you can actually call it a screen. They do have some you can fit though.

Power, well nothing much to say, other than that a 75hp twin and a 160hp four is no real comparison.
All I can say is that it is very very fast.

I see myself riding this bike the whole day with no problems at all, everything is very comfortable, and the handling is crisp and precise, I loved it.

Oh, I almost forgot the brakes. While the back brake did not impress me, the Mt's actually being better, the front brake was..... Well... I'm lost for worlds but this perticular bike probably had the best front brake I have ever experienced.
One finger ONE!!!!! And just gently squeeze the leaver like 5mm and this thing was braking hard. It was also very easy to control the amount of braking applied despite have such a short travel.

So this bike is still at the top of my list, sadly there are no used ones for sale, and I have no plan to shed out 200.000nok (21,500 euros) for a brand new one with the two options packages (2100 euro).

With what I have ridden I the past weeks, the s1000r is hands down the best machine, with the Z1000SX as a close number two.
Both theses bikes I could have ridden all day with no problem.
The z1000sx has the advantage of the fairing, but the BMW is better in fun and handling, and most certainly in the power department. But the z1000sx is a very very good bike too.

 

[eriks]

ok great to hear from first hand not to read some review of journalist.
i am waiting for MT10 to try it out and compare it to S1000R after that myself. I am 1.72 so a bit worried about seat height..

 

[sdrio]

My brother tested the BMW a couple of months ago, but eventually bought a Z1000sx. He felt the BMW was too small for him. He is about 6'1" / 1.85m.

 

[Noggie]

My brother tested the BMW a couple of months ago, but eventually bought a Z1000sx. He felt the BMW was too small for him. He is about 6'1" / 1.85m.

Yes the Z1000SX, is an excellent bike, and probably more of a tourer than the BMW.
The fairing does provide better wind protection, and the seating position is a bit more upright, and the paniers means you can bring more stuff than the BMW.

I guess it all depends on what kind of riding you do.
If I was to do more tours, and trips over several days the Z1000SX is a better bike, however I'm not a camping kind of guy, the thought of bringing a tent ride around for days is not something I consider..
The BMW is probably more fun in the twisties, and has a sportier feel.
For my use I think the fun factor is higher on the BMW, as I typically do shorter trips of perhaps 100-150km, and day trips up around 300km.

After all I did buy an S1000R, and I'm picking it up tomorrow

However I could see myself owning a Z1000SX in the future.