Further riding Qualifications


Eddieh93

New member
I am interested in becoming an instructor in the near future.

Got the opportunity to do a Ride Safe Course in September. Does anyone recommend it?

Is anyone on hear ROSPA qualified? I have looked at the route I need to go to be an instructor and it looks a pain in the arse to keep current.
 

foxracer

New member
I'm a member of the IAM in East London, currently progressing through my course. Should be ready to take my test soon! Hadn't considered training to be an observer though
 

bobh

Member
I've been an observer with TVAM (the largest IAM group, based in Wokingham but with members from a very wide area) for about 8 years now. I came back to biking in 2003, realised I needed to up my game to get the most from a modern bike, and was recommended to TVAM by a colleague.

Even though I'd been riding on and off for a long time, I found that I still had a lot to learn. So a year or so after passing the test I decided to give something back and do the observer training. It was one of the hardest things I've ever done, but well worth it in the end, both for the satisfaction of seeing people improving up to advanced standard and also for what its done to improve my own riding and make it more enjoyable. As observers we get to have our riding assessed by Rapid Training (the clue's in the name) every couple of years, which is a hoot.

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I can't speak for any of the other IAM groups, but TVAM is also a great social and bike club generally, with lots of stuff going on, e.g. exclusive track days (we've even had the Nurburgring to ourselves, with instructors, a couple of times), social and training group runs, weekends and longer trips away etc. Monthly meetings, where newcomers can have a free assessment ride, are at St Crispin's School, Wokingham, on the third Sunday of each month - more detail at tvam.org.

End of commercial break.
 

sdrio

New member
I keep thinking about doing the IAM test.

My Dad was a police biker, and accident reconstructor. Although he died just before I was old enough to ride a bike on the road (legally, anyway), he used to have some fairly strong opinions on traffic safety, which my older brother and his mates who were all getting mopeds at the time were subjected to in no uncertain terms. It would be interesting to go and do all the things he used to try and drum into us before we were actually on the road.

Problem I have is that with a couple of fairly young kids (5 and 12), the idea of Sunday mornings being my own just gets a small chuckle.
 

foxracer

New member
I keep thinking about doing the IAM test.

My Dad was a police biker, and accident reconstructor. Although he died just before I was old enough to ride a bike on the road (legally, anyway), he used to have some fairly strong opinions on traffic safety, which my older brother and his mates who were all getting mopeds at the time were subjected to in no uncertain terms. It would be interesting to go and do all the things he used to try and drum into us before we were actually on the road.

Problem I have is that with a couple of fairly young kids (5 and 12), the idea of Sunday mornings being my own just gets a small chuckle.
I'd strongly recommend it! Which part of London are you in?
 

sdrio

New member
I'd strongly recommend it! Which part of London are you in?
Twickenham.

I think the nearest to me is Sutton, I looked at it before.

It says it takes something like 6 months to do, is that every weekend, or once per month? I could do once per month, just couldn't do every weekend.
 

foxracer

New member
So I can only comment on what my group does, but I think it's the same for others?

You start the course with a particular group. There was a machine control day (slow speed riding, emergency braking etc) at an airfield, and 5 theory evenings, combined with 5 group observed rides usually on the weekend after the theory night. It's spread across a number of months and certainly isn't every weekend. The idea is that you're practicing in between the Observed Rides. You can usually request to be in a Saturday or a Sunday group.

Once you complete the group observed rides, you team up with an observer for more one on one coaching until you're deemed ready to take the test! I've found it to be very flexible. I had to miss some (all) of the theory nights due to work commitments, but was able to catch up with the reading materials and then just discussed with my Observer every time we met.

Hopefully I'll be ready to take my test in the next few months :)
 

sdrio

New member
So I can only comment on what my group does, but I think it's the same for others?

You start the course with a particular group. There was a machine control day (slow speed riding, emergency braking etc) at an airfield, and 5 theory evenings, combined with 5 group observed rides usually on the weekend after the theory night. It's spread across a number of months and certainly isn't every weekend. The idea is that you're practicing in between the Observed Rides. You can usually request to be in a Saturday or a Sunday group.

Once you complete the group observed rides, you team up with an observer for more one on one coaching until you're deemed ready to take the test! I've found it to be very flexible. I had to miss some (all) of the theory nights due to work commitments, but was able to catch up with the reading materials and then just discussed with my Observer every time we met.

Hopefully I'll be ready to take my test in the next few months :)
Might work then. Seems I can just rock up at one to see how it is, might do that next time they have a meetup.

Good luck with yours!
 

bobh

Member
TVAM is probably even more flexible. You join up, are allocated an observer, and he/she does the training with you until you're ready, at times, dates and places that are mutually convenient (but in daylight).

There's the option of formal courses (classroom, slow riding, bike handling, advanced braking etc.) but your observer can do that with you if you can't make it. Similarly the monthly meetings in Wokingham are an opportunity to have a second opinion from another observer, but it's entirely voluntary.

We do a "Cross-check", which is in effect a dummy test by a senior observer, before anyone is put forward for the test proper, so we get a very high pass rate.

Another thing - unlike some groups we don't charge for the observer's time or fuel, however many observed runs it takes to get you up to standard. I've had associates pass after as few as 3 runs, others have taken dozens.
 

sdrio

New member
TVAM is probably even more flexible. You join up, are allocated an observer, and he/she does the training with you until you're ready, at times, dates and places that are mutually convenient (but in daylight).

There's the option of formal courses (classroom, slow riding, bike handling, advanced braking etc.) but your observer can do that with you if you can't make it. Similarly the monthly meetings in Wokingham are an opportunity to have a second opinion from another observer, but it's entirely voluntary.

We do a "Cross-check", which is in effect a dummy test by a senior observer, before anyone is put forward for the test proper, so we get a very high pass rate.

Another thing - unlike some groups we don't charge for the observer's time or fuel, however many observed runs it takes to get you up to standard. I've had associates pass after as few as 3 runs, others have taken dozens.
Thanks - I did look at that, it might actually be the 'nearest' to me, as I live 5 mins from the M3.

Looks to me like 20th March would be suitable to come along and have a look? https://www.tvam.org/event/st-crispins-sunday/?instance_id=12427
 

sdrio

New member
So I can only comment on what my group does, but I think it's the same for others?

You start the course with a particular group. There was a machine control day (slow speed riding, emergency braking etc) at an airfield, and 5 theory evenings, combined with 5 group observed rides usually on the weekend after the theory night. It's spread across a number of months and certainly isn't every weekend. The idea is that you're practicing in between the Observed Rides. You can usually request to be in a Saturday or a Sunday group.

Once you complete the group observed rides, you team up with an observer for more one on one coaching until you're deemed ready to take the test! I've found it to be very flexible. I had to miss some (all) of the theory nights due to work commitments, but was able to catch up with the reading materials and then just discussed with my Observer every time we met.

Hopefully I'll be ready to take my test in the next few months :)
Thanks, that's helpful.

I'm going to check it out, have ummed and awwed about it for years!
 

sdrio

New member
OK, here's an update for anyone still reading. I went along to the Thames Valley meeting in Wokingham yesterday.

As Bobh hinted, there were a lot of bikes there. A LOT of them. Several hundred I reckon, out of apparently a membership of 900 or so. Big club!

Couple of slightly amusing things - firstly, if you've ever been to somewhere like Boxhill on a Sunday, you'll know what a typical gathering of bikers looks like - everything from fresh out of the showroom beemers with Schuberth sporting riders, to 1980s shitboxes whose riders are wearing an old potty for a helmet.

The bikes gathered at TVAM looked like a motor show. Not a clunker among them. This isn't a bad thing, and I guess not unexpected, but very unusual to see. There was no shortage of dayglo hi viz either.

The other thing that tickled me - to get into the place you have to weave through a series of car parks, then very slowly sweep round in a fairly confined space to park. I watched for a while, saw maybe 50 bikes do this, and not a single person ever touched their foot down or stopped to manouvre - every one looped round and stopped in the correct space. This was clearly a matter of honour, I suspect anyone who messed it up would have been made to buy 200 cups of tea.

Anyway, onto what actually happened. I was quickly helped and pointed in the right direction by a easy to find greeter, and sent over for my free cup of tea (very welcome, but it's worth saying even if you aren't getting a free one, it's only 25p - bargain of the century there).

For the first half an hour we were given an introduction, a kind of 'here's what will happen' talk, and details of costs etc were discussed. After this I was introduced to my observer (a guy called Nick), who took me out on the roads for about an hour.

Have to say, that area has some really good biking roads. It was quite good fun.

I was told to ride naturally, which I did. We did mostly country lanes, through a few villages, once through a town, and a short dual carriageway blast. Most of the time Nick was following me, occasionally he would ride ahead. We stopped a couple of times to discuss the ride. The last 5 mins were through some fast derestricted winding lanes, which was a bit of a hoot.

Seems there isn't anything too badly wrong with my riding. The only points I was told needed work were my positioning in the road (and even in that hour we were out, I was able to learn how to start improving that), and my tendency to let physics take over and slow me down when exiting a bend. I guess more than 30 years of riding bikes has taught me something, but I was fairly pleased with the assessment. I had expected to find a lot more dirty habits.

So I think I will go ahead and do the advanced test. The club itself does somewhat give this the hard sell - you are sort of expected to join, and at the end are sat down in front of the membership people - this isn't a complaint, and it should be noted that the club itself is not a for-profit at all (and only takes a small part of the one off cost). The observers and the instructors are not paid in any way, they volunteer and pay their own costs for doing so, as do all the other people who run it.

My impression of the club - very positive. They are the largest in the UK, and have a very high pass rate (they said 96%, but I read elsewhere nobody has ever failed). I was treated very well, my observer, Nick, was a very pleasant guy who was obviously very keen and willing to pass on his knowledge.

Watch this space . . .
 

Eddieh93

New member
Cheers for the update Sdrio, sound like you had a good ride out.

From what you have said i am going to find my local night and go along.
 

sdrio

New member
Cheers for the update Sdrio, sound like you had a good ride out.

From what you have said i am going to find my local night and go along.
I reckon it's worth doing. Anything that makes you a better and safer rider can't be a bad thing.

Just to be precise - the cost right now is a one off £149, which includes everything you need to take one test (I believe if you fail you have to pay for the test again), and once you pass that's it, you have it for life.

After that, you only pay any membership fee to your club (the first year is included in the £149). For TVAM I believe it's about 30 something pounds for the year, but you don't need to be a member of a club to keep your advanced driving qualification.
 

bobh

Member
Glad you had a positive experience.

For what it's worth, my day at TVAM was not so good. I took out an associate for an observed ride, which was going well for the first few miles until I heard the dreaded clicking that says a rear wheel bearing is on the way out. It's a known MT-03 "feature", though I had hoped this one would last a wee bit longer. So we had to abandon the ride, and I ended up getting a lift home with a friend, who fortunately lives close by, so I could fetch the bike home on the trailer. I have spare bearings in stock, so it's a quick fix, but not something to do at the roadside. With hindsight it would have been quicker to call recovery, but the upside was being able to catch up with the friend, whom I'd not seen for some time.

This is by no means typical, by the way - it's the first time I've had a bike problem in 12 years and many thousands of miles of TVAM riding. And I was only using the MT-03 because the Fazer's MoT has run out. I have been with associates who've had problems, however - a couple of Honda VFR reg/rectifier issues (a known "feature" of that make), plus someone on a bike that was new to them running out of petrol on the M3 - I now carry a syphon tube and bottle as part of my emergency "get-you-home" kit.
 

sdrio

New member
Glad you had a positive experience.

For what it's worth, my day at TVAM was not so good. I took out an associate for an observed ride, which was going well for the first few miles until I heard the dreaded clicking that says a rear wheel bearing is on the way out. It's a known MT-03 "feature", though I had hoped this one would last a wee bit longer. So we had to abandon the ride, and I ended up getting a lift home with a friend, who fortunately lives close by, so I could fetch the bike home on the trailer. I have spare bearings in stock, so it's a quick fix, but not something to do at the roadside. With hindsight it would have been quicker to call recovery, but the upside was being able to catch up with the friend, whom I'd not seen for some time.

This is by no means typical, by the way - it's the first time I've had a bike problem in 12 years and many thousands of miles of TVAM riding. And I was only using the MT-03 because the Fazer's MoT has run out. I have been with associates who've had problems, however - a couple of Honda VFR reg/rectifier issues (a known "feature" of that make), plus someone on a bike that was new to them running out of petrol on the M3 - I now carry a syphon tube and bottle as part of my emergency "get-you-home" kit.
That's a shame. I had to replace the front wheel and head bearings on my MT03, but the back was always OK. Hopefully they disintegrated spectacularly just after the little scrotes who nicked it got it running.

I have an ever growing kit in my rucksack. I added a surprisingly small power pack to it the other day, which has a set of croc clips and apparently will start a Land Rover with a flat battery. Having a 15 year old R1, it seemed like a good idea!
 

foxracer

New member
The observers and the instructors are not paid in any way, they volunteer and pay their own costs for doing so, as do all the other people who run it.
I think its generally assumed that you'll contribute towards your observer's fuel cost too. I generally give my observer a tenner after a few hours of riding.
 

sdrio

New member
I think its generally assumed that you'll contribute towards your observer's fuel cost too. I generally give my observer a tenner after a few hours of riding.
I'd have said that, but they were very firm about there being no money to change hands.

Maybe when I am riding with my permanent observer I can broach the subject - I certainly have no problem with it.

Perhaps Bobh can guide?

If it turns out I should have given the observer I rode with something, I will sort it out.
 


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