Bad experience with fully synth oil

[tw586]

last week i did my 1 year service and used yamahas 10w40 full synth oil,
I had done about 150klm and noticed at full operating temp the engine was noisy-er than usual
tappet rattle
chain tick
gear box roll over noise in neutral

and harshness at mid torque in the rev range

bit the bullet and dumped the oil and filter

used Fusch semi ester synth 10w40 and genuine filter

completely different engine now, smoother and 75% reduction in noise

has any one else had a similar experience?

 

[Suficient]

last week i did my 1 year service and used yamahas 10w40 full synth oil,
I had done about 150klm and noticed at full operating temp the engine was noisy-er than usual
tappet rattle
chain tick
gear box roll over noise in neutral

and harshness at mid torque in the rev range

bit the bullet and dumped the oil and filter

used Fusch semi ester synth 10w40 and genuine filter

completely different engine now, smoother and 75% reduction in noise

has any one else had a similar experience?

Hi,

I used Castrol Power 1 Racing 10w40 (fully sinth) + Hiflofiltro in 6,000km service and noticed nothing of what you're talking about. On the contrary, now shifting is smoother.
The only thing you have to be careful of is not using oil with anti-friction additives, because they turn the clutch slippery and damage it.

 

[Scim77]

last week i did my 1 year service and used yamahas 10w40 full synth oil,
I had done about 150klm and noticed at full operating temp the engine was noisy-er than usual
tappet rattle
chain tick
gear box roll over noise in neutral

and harshness at mid torque in the rev range

bit the bullet and dumped the oil and filter

used Fusch semi ester synth 10w40 and genuine filter

completely different engine now, smoother and 75% reduction in noise

has any one else had a similar experience?

You said that you used Yamaha's fully synthetic 10W/40 oil but then later go on to say that you used Fuchs ester-based semi-synthetic. I was just wondering which oil you has used.

To answer your question, I have certainly experienced big differences in performance between different makes of oil that purport to comply to the same specification. My old Norton Commando 850 engine always went faster and sounded smoother when I used Motul Fully Synthetic ester oil. I have also experienced the same excellent performance when using Motul 7100 10W/40 fully synthetic ester motor oil in my MT-07. Whereas another make of fully synthetic oil that I recently tried in the MT, which also complied to Yamaha's spec, actually made the gearshift considerably worse.

As "Suficient" rightly stated, it all depends on the oil company getting the friction pack correct.

I thoroughly recommend Motul 7100 10W40 fully synthetic ester. I have no connection with this or any other oil company but oils have fascinated me all my life and Motul is a truly impressive company with its own in-house chemists and formulators. It is used by many racing teams who, on the face of it, might seem to be sponsored by other oil companies. Whereas they are actually using Motul in their engines and gearboxes, covertly hidden within plain or other brand tins !!

 

[tw586]

at 7500k carried out service and used Yamalube 10w40 full synth oil, replaced it 150k later with the fusch semi ester based oil of the same grade.
In my 35 years experience as an auto engineer ( marine, car and truck) I have found that some engine types and configurations dont like fully synthetic oils,
Not having a full understanding of the chemistry of these oils I can only go on experience, and in this case I will not use a full synth in my MT07, having said that My mt03 loves the yamalube full synth oil

 

[Ralph]

I know a ex race team owner, they were contracted to run Yamalube but were braking cranks so they started
running engines in on Yamalube but racing on Proline or Silkolene cant remember which, no more broken cranks
and a free 1.5 bhp on the dyno. Local Yam dealer uses Mogul I think would have to look at the bill, the local
Suzuki dealer used to use oil from a local oil company Harrison, I still use their 2 stroke oil and very good it is
to, but going to a dealer is no guarantee they will use the makers oil.

 

[Scim77]

at 7500k carried out service and used Yamalube 10w40 full synth oil, replaced it 150k later with the fusch semi ester based oil of the same grade.
In my 35 years experience as an auto engineer ( marine, car and truck) I have found that some engine types and configurations dont like fully synthetic oils,
Not having a full understanding of the chemistry of these oils I can only go on experience, and in this case I will not use a full synth in my MT07, having said that My mt03 loves the yamalube full synth oil

tw586 is quite right about some engines not liking fully synthetic oil. It is not a universal panacea. In fact, conventional old-fashioned mineral oils often have better lubricity than some synthetics and may cling better to the bearings under certain conditions. It is a complex and interesting subject.

I, too, have reverted back to mineral oils from synthetics in some car and bike engines, prompted by a lack of oil-bearing film causing knocking from cold start-up. You have to experiment a little, armed with a bit of useful knowledge.

I discovered that ester-based synthetics are chemically different and can have better performance than most. Apparently the ester molecules have a bonding attraction to metal. They literally never let go. This is an excellent property for a lubricant to have, similar to how molybdenum disulphide grabs and clings to metal, although esters do it even better. I ran the old Norton on mineral oil for years, since it was an old design that I thought would prefer jungle juice. I felt no advantages when I tried fully synthetic, so reverted back to mineral again. Then I stumbled across esters. Wow! The old Norton sounded smoother, quieter and had more power. I could barely believe it. Not all oils are the same and not all synthetics are the same either.

My MT-07 loves Motul 7100 10W40 ester synthetic. The gearshift is slick and fast and the engine pulls like stink.

 

[gregjet]

All synths are not created equal, and some are much more equal than others.
The above comment about engine/oil combinations I can also attest to. Interestingly one I have is a inverse of the Motul story. I had a Cagiva Raptor ( SV650 motor Ducatified) . It HATED Motul. It immediately would go from a silky smooth gearchange to a BMW like clunk. The clutch was aweful. Changed back to ANOTHER SYNTH ( Fuchs I think may have been motorex) and it was fine. Used Motul 7100 on other motors as diverse as CBR125R to ER6N's and CBR250RR's with brilliant results.
The are more than one TYPE of synthetics but I always use synthetics except for initial runin.
I suspect Ralph will back me up on this , but what is good in a race motor may not be good in a road motor. Very different engine environments and race oils are changed VERY often ( read tens to hundreds of Km, not thousands).

 

[DJP]

I had a similar experience with the Yamalube and ended up dumping it after 1000 miles.

I went back to Mobil 1 and normal, smooth service was resumed.

 

[sharky]

I'm expecting my 1st service to be due in about a week's time and a chat with my dealer got me thinking.

He told me they will use Yamalube 20W50 because the shop engineer suggests it, and because my bike will run better with it.

According to the manual, 20W50 would suitable for ambient temps of 10c to 45c.



What would happen in the winter if the ambient temp is bellow 10c, let's say 5c, 0c or even bellow zero (if I visit a colder place for the weekend)?

Would I be better will 10W40 ?

 

[Scim77]

You are right to query the 20W/50 oil grade recommendation. The chart speaks for itself. Even in Greece, you can experience very low temperatures in the depths of winter and 20W/50 can be quite thick and gloopy near to zero degrees C. This reduces oil flow, just when you need it the most - on a cold start. Oil flow is vital for engine protection and is far more important than oil pressure. Oil is your primary engine coolant, as well as being the lubricant. The film strength of low viscosity oil is easily capable of coping with the bearing loads experienced in the Yamaha engine and gearbox and I think that 10W/40 should be your primary oil grade. Your garage's advice to use 20W/50 might be based on some experiences they have had during extreme Greek summer heat waves but I think that 10W/40 will cope with Greek summers too. 10W/40 will give you greater oil flow to cool and lubricate the engine bearings plus less drag.

 

[sharky]

You are right to query the 20W/50 oil grade recommendation. The chart speaks for itself. Even in Greece, you can experience very low temperatures in the depths of winter and 20W/50 can be quite thick and gloopy near to zero degrees C. This reduces oil flow, just when you need it the most - on a cold start. Oil flow is vital for engine protection and is far more important than oil pressure. Oil is your primary engine coolant, as well as being the lubricant. The film strength of low viscosity oil is easily capable of coping with the bearing loads experienced in the Yamaha engine and gearbox and I think that 10W/40 should be your primary oil grade. Your garage's advice to use 20W/50 might be based on some experiences they have had during extreme Greek summer heat waves but I think that 10W/40 will cope with Greek summers too. 10W/40 will give you greater oil flow to cool and lubricate the engine bearings plus less drag.

Thank you for your detailed and educating answer! Your logic sounds to me spot on.

Is everybody happy with Yamalube semi-synthetic 10W40 or shall I try and get another brand?

 

[Deleted member 20]

Everybody will never be happy with one specific oil brand/type. Some like one brand, some like another, most prefer synthetic, some are happy with semi-synthetic, some don't care at all.

You could also go with a 10W50 oil that covers a wider temp range, for example Castrol Power1 Racing. Or any other brand. What brands are popular in Greece?

 

[sharky]

Everybody will never be happy with one specific oil brand/type. Some like one brand, some like another, most prefer synthetic, some are happy with semi-synthetic, some don't care at all.

You could also go with a 10W50 oil that covers a wider temp range, for example Castrol Power1 Racing. Or any other brand. What brands are popular in Greece?

Its also a matter of the dealer "allowing" me to buy my oil else where. He only sells Yamalube semi-synthetic and if there in no good reason to get another brand it might be better to go through him until my warranty expires.

I don't know which brands are more popular in Greece since I'm very new in the motorbike world.

and30ers have you tried Yamalube semi-synth 10W40 ? If yes, is it satisfactory?

 

[Deleted member 20]

I have never used YamaLube, don't think Yamaha actually make oils so I have no idea what's in the can or where it comes from. Don't even think Yamaha dealers in Sweden supply YamaLube, they use Motul, Liqui Moly, Castrol or what ever.

I use a local Swedish oil (Statoil) synthetic 10w40. If I were living in Greece I would probably get synthetic 10w50. Not all brands have 10w50 so I would get and try what I could find. At local gas station or bike shop.

Probably not the most helpful answer... sorry.

 

[sharky]

Thank you for your input and30ers.

 

[sdrio]

Revisiting this one, opinions please . . .

I've got about 3,000 miles on my current oil, planning to do a routine change.

If I'm only going to do 3,000 miles between each change, how fussy do you think I should be with what I put in?

I can buy 'branded' stuff for about £30 - 40, (assuming I need about 3 litres, but will buy 4 just to be safe), and I can buy other stuff on ebay/Amazon, EG this shell stuff for £22 / 4l

Most of my riding (90%+) is sub 50mph in traffic, with very occasional blasts on a motorway.

Should I feed the beast with caviar, or will any old crap do?

 

[Deleted member 20]

...and I can buy this shell stuff for £22 / 4l

That Shell Advance 4T AX7 stuff 10w40 semi API:SL and Jaso:MA2 is perfectly fine. I wouldn't hesitate using it.

 

[Scim77]

The Shell 4T AX7 (semi-synthetic) 10W/40 should be fine in your MT-07. Shell's application guide lists 4T Ultra (fully synthetic) 10W/40 as their primary choice with 4T AX7 as the alternative.

I also change my oils in bikes and cars more often than the makers suggest. I doubt I will exceed 2000 miles with the Yam, and that's on ester synthetic. Overkill, or what!?

Confirm that the oils you use in the Yam meet JASO MA2, which ensures that the clutch wont slip, and that it exceeds API SG. 4T AX7 meets API SL, so it is well up to spec.

 

[sdrio]

Thank you chaps, I shall go with the Shell.

 

[Viking]

I bought 3 liters of shell advance 4t ultra 10w40 the other day and cant wait to fill it up! It is a full sinth oil and it was a bargin (9euro per liter). Fited the k&n air filter and bought k&n oil filter. Will make a review!

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